Woman's Hour : BBC Radio 4 FM : August 11, 2016 10:00AM-10:45AM BST
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The role of the First Lady, political point-scoring or wifely devotion?
🔗 Their owners would have known the hurdles I know his use I think trying for
🔗 reflection on the fame of the river beginning with the right amount list all of
🔗 them. I watched the autumn salmon run
🔗 and was enchanted by one particular fish the river next Monday to Friday
🔗 at one forty five.
🔗 News at ten o'clock.
🔗 Russia is beginning a temporary suspension of military activity in the Syrian city
🔗 of Aleppo its forces will allow humanitarian aid to be taken into the city for
🔗 three hours each day.
🔗 The International Committee of the Red Cross said it was concerned
🔗 that there was no consent about a cease fire between all sides involved in the
🔗 A senior Australian Minister Scott Morrison has temporarily blocked a Chinese
🔗 consortium from taking a controlling stake in the country's largest electricity
🔗 network because of worries about national security.
🔗 Last month Britain postponed approval for a new nuclear reactor at Hinkley Point in
🔗 which a Chinese company would have a minority stake CORISH move us one he reports.
🔗 China's state great call
🔗 and Hong Kong's chunk of infrastructure holdings were attempting to buy a fifty
🔗 point four percent controlling stake in Oz grid which is New South Wales
🔗 electricity distribution network and the largest in the country.
🔗 The sale which is reportedly worth around seven point five billion dollars would
🔗 have allowed the bid is to acquire a controlling stake in Oz grid for one thousand
🔗 nine years but Mr Morrison says
🔗 that during the review process national security issues were identified in critical
🔗 power and communications services that was grid provides to businesses
🔗 and governments.
🔗 Police say the four people who died in a crash in West Bank Show yesterday were a
🔗 forty five year old woman and three children. The college.
🔗 On the I thirty four Near East Illsley involve four lorries and four cars.
🔗 Britain's Olympic athletes are hoping for more medals after taking two gold
🔗 and four bronze in Rio yesterday.
🔗 Catherine Granger will become the U.K.'s most successful female Olympian if she
🔗 and Victoria Thornley win a medal in the women's doubles skulls.
🔗 The Scottish government says questions need to be asked about why a drilling rig
🔗 that's run aground on the west coast of Lewis was being towed in stormy weather two
🔗 of the fuel storage tanks appeared to have been breached.
🔗 But it's unclear how much diesel has been released into the environment B.B.C.
🔗 News. This is B.B.C.
🔗 Radio Four thousands of young people in Poland are joining paramilitary groups to
🔗 defend their country against a possible invasion
🔗 but from Tim he will try to find out in this morning's crossing continents at
🔗 eleven o'clock. Well it's time for Bowman's are with Jenny McCarthy. Good morning.
🔗 For the first time. If Hillary Clinton makes it to the White House.
🔗 America will have no first lady.
🔗 How will bill be styled and who are the notable first ladies of the past.
🔗 In the fourth in a series on knife crime what role are the police playing in
🔗 tackling gang violence.
🔗 That there's a shot at Brae will have a premiere at Proms on Sunday with her piece
🔗 falling in the fire and the subtle head dressing. In Manchester.
🔗 That Jews and Jamie on the course quite just this week
🔗 when they made public the attendance of their older daughters in the latter stages
🔗 of the birth of their fifth child.
🔗 The two girls who are twelve and fourteen were present for the actual delivery
🔗 and allowed to cut the umbilical cord.
🔗 The best place at the private Portland Hospital in London.
🔗 Now some commentators so she's a lovely idea to include older children in the birth
🔗 of a brother or sister.
🔗 Allison Pearson in the Telegraph wrote I reckon seeing your mom give birth would be
🔗 enough to put you.
🔗 Of losing your virginity let alone starting a family of your own.
🔗 Well how common is it for kids to be in attendance
🔗 and what impact does it have to witness a mother in labor.
🔗 Where Jackie Gerrard is director for England of her own College of Midwives
🔗 and Vivian Pettit allowed her four year old daughter to be present at the birth of
🔗 her baby brother and she joins us on the line there.
🔗 Why did you let your daughter to be there. She was only four.
🔗 And it's something my daughter expressed over I say the pregnancy she was very well
🔗 involved and she mentioned that she'd like to say
🔗 that by the people on sorrow or encourage it.
🔗 From then on it was a fantastic experience.
🔗 Jacki how often do you reckon now midwives are being asked if children can be
🔗 I still think it's a very rare occurrence for a midwife to be asked the question
🔗 and I think that this is a real opportunity that we've opened up this conversation.
🔗 So we really need to thank me all of her family for having this race so high.
🔗 This profile.
🔗 So one midwife may be asking women would you like your other children to be present
🔗 at the birth because at the moment it's infrequently.
🔗 But then they get in the way especially if you're in as I recall it around a to
🔗 Lismore delivery room eliminators hospital.
🔗 Well that's where we've changed Jenny
🔗 and that's where we now have these wonderful birth centers and they're real
🔗 and they're a much bigger and the environment more like home
🔗 and in fact some women say they're like a spa we have big wins we have plenty of
🔗 space and we encourage the family to be there
🔗 and I think instead the children have been involved in the pregnancy.
🔗 So why not be involved in the birth. Now that he and yours was a home delivery yet.
🔗 Why was your son not interested when my daughter was profoundly interested.
🔗 He just didn't want to dare and we asked him
🔗 and he said Now I ought I want to baby that when it happens and I didn't like him.
🔗 He didn't wake up. And that was his choice I would a forced upon him.
🔗 If you did want to will obviously encouraged him.
🔗 So at what point did your daughter come in. She come down.
🔗 I mean my purpose fifty minutes and she was that practically five minutes into it.
🔗 She was there that the whole wife very rubbing my back holding the gas
🔗 and there for the last bit.
🔗 My using no they did women in the do have a tendency to shout swear
🔗 and appear to be in a good deal of pain
🔗 and again if I remember rightly turned to rubble lose their tempers
🔗 when some of the ribs. Speaking from personal experience. However it.
🔗 How concerned were you that she would be upset.
🔗 But it didn't concern me at all actually.
🔗 And there was two adults in the van that could have taken a any opportunity
🔗 and she was so calm.
🔗 I mean I did prepare had beforehand watching baths
🔗 or I wasn't quite over say I did have eleven pound by a obvious quite vocal
🔗 and I found a bee in fifty five minutes that pretty. Jack is just gone.
🔗 Wow Oh yeah it wasn't quiet
🔗 but I'd want to about all this you know I said mom it's going to be empty shouting
🔗 and I told everything to even like blood you know I she she knew everything.
🔗 Where would you actually stand really on this principle.
🔗 Jackie is it good for a child to this new life coming all might you take the
🔗 Allison Pearson as you that it might be too distressing for a child.
🔗 Well when you just listen to what Vivian has said and how she described
🔗 that preparation
🔗 that relationship even has with the children she talked to trust someone with
🔗 interest. It's one wasn't interested.
🔗 So the child led the recent was almost like you know up to the child
🔗 and in a loving kidding family relationship such as that. How could it be true.
🔗 I can't see what the problem is you're not forcing
🔗 that on the checkout you prepaid English the child you're being sensitive
🔗 and you're letting him know what my might not happen.
🔗 And again Vivian had another adult there in case the child did get distress.
🔗 So there's absolutely nothing that could go wrong
🔗 and you know we know there's no evidence to show
🔗 that it does traumatized children but we know
🔗 that things can go wrong in a delivery Congo's seriously wrong I mean Vivian's was
🔗 clearly very I think I just said what's it going wrong for the child sorry not the
🔗 labor itself so officer the midwife protocols well in place
🔗 and the midwife is focusing on the women
🔗 and so the other adults are focusing on the child.
🔗 So the midwife doing their back and the adults looking after the children.
🔗 So in terms of have something to go wrong midwife would be well fast Well perhaps
🔗 in what to do and they'd be focusing on mum
🔗 and you'd expect the other adult to look after the child
🔗 but I was talking about the trauma to the child there's no evidence to show
🔗 that this traumatized children
🔗 that the children are we've all been a pregnancy some how does one not get to all
🔗 the time is generally a man or is it men fainting.
🔗 Yes that's men or men either so.
🔗 Enough said but I do I do understand where the press are coming from
🔗 that they think of the think it's traumatic for a child
🔗 but if you're leaving up to the child in a supportive loving environment.
🔗 Keating in fact you've got a child.
🔗 Well well prepared
🔗 and you've got another adult for a very young child then I can see why
🔗 that can be so awful I think it's natural and it's nonsense to play
🔗 and it's done lovingly
🔗 and then what women are telling me there's been a lot of buzz on social media is
🔗 that they've got really strong relationships with their siblings the child at the
🔗 scene coming into the world of got a really strong relationship really close to
🔗 them and
🔗 when you think of the all of the family the too good of cutting the cord high
🔗 specialist that that's absolutely wonderful.
🔗 They're going to have a really strong positive relationship into an adult with the
🔗 younger child in Seattle. With a big sister his big sister is so good.
🔗 Really accent how she prepared her daughter for it. Watching films of birth.
🔗 What would you A draw is if someone's making this decision.
🔗 The preparation should be.
🔗 I think that's absolutely prepare the child to talk to the child.
🔗 If you have got access to birth films
🔗 and in a sensitive supportive way prepare them prepare them for the noise prepare
🔗 them that mommy my you know cry mom might make a noise
🔗 and there might be some time when mom says you need to leave the room.
🔗 If something is going wrong.
🔗 So it's about giving the information you can't expect young children to process all
🔗 of that information
🔗 but you have to keep the conversation going throughout the pregnancy
🔗 and she keep checking each state are you sure you want to be there are you happy to
🔗 be there
🔗 and just as much preparation as possible in a loving Keating supportively
🔗 and the child will then let you know what what they want to do
🔗 and they've been described beautifully what actually happened in her experience
🔗 and a lot of women are telling me this in social media is it in it's six years old
🔗 and you know yes the little one is No six you're don't get a risk.
🔗 Consequently ten yet what has been the impact on her
🔗 and her relationship with her our love late she was the first to hold him as well
🔗 you know she would step back and she was the first to hold him
🔗 and she tells everyone the story she remembers everything she tells Luke about it.
🔗 You know and I'm tough experience should be ten
🔗 when he's fair to say I mean what a story to tell what she tells him what it was
🔗 like to see him being born yet yet.
🔗 She said she saw him come out everything you know
🔗 and I think it's an amazing experience to have under direct again the Don
🔗 if she would change in Irish I would have encouraged it. I think it's brilliant.
🔗 Are you planning to do to go. After eleven pounds.
🔗 Now I think eleven Vandervoort of our military is so impressive.
🔗 Maybe stop at that stage. Yes definitely definitely.
🔗 But I would encourage anyone to do it. I mean I did up the mix for a few days.
🔗 Some people give you sorta annoyed to think are you crazy
🔗 but most people were very positive that impacted her
🔗 and Jackie Jerrold thank you both very much indeed for being with us this morning
🔗 and Duras know what you think. Let us know if you've done it.
🔗 There's no if you plan to do it. Let me know if you horrified at the mere thought.
🔗 Thank you both.
🔗 Now in the remember if Hillary Clinton wins the presidential election.
🔗 America will not have a first lady instead. Bill Clinton.
🔗 Will become the president's helpmeet traditionally responsible for hosting dinners
🔗 charming foreign dignitaries and they're creating the White House.
🔗 So how would a man fit the role
🔗 and how much have the women who've taken his own in the past simply been a dutiful
🔗 wife and how much of their exerted will power
🔗 and influence what Lillian coming amid a Washington Post journalist who's examining
🔗 the lives of all U.S. Presidents in her. Presidential pop coast.
🔗 She's paying close attention to the personal relationships in particular their
🔗 So what's the origin of the term first lady there are actually some conflicting
🔗 It wasn't used originally it wasn't really popularized until the late eighteenth
🔗 Funny enough first ladies up until then sort of took their own titles so Julia
🔗 Tyler like to call herself Mrs President tress.
🔗 Which didn't really stick for other first ladies
🔗 but it came about really an eight hundred seventy seven
🔗 when a journalist used it to describe First Lady Lucy Hayes
🔗 and the term has stuck since then who was the first one to have a high profile in
🔗 her own right. Dolly Madison.
🔗 Hugh was our fourth president James Madison's wife she was.
🔗 Really the first first lady who was well known she was actually probably even
🔗 better known and more loved than her husband the president was
🔗 and a lot of it had to do with you know again we come back to character
🔗 and President James Madison was shy he was introverted he wasn't very good at
🔗 working a room or working with crowds and Dolly Madison.
🔗 You know if it had been Today she probably would have been the politician she was
🔗 the really outgoing charismatic one.
🔗 And so the social circles in Washington the political sphere the greater American
🔗 public really came to see her as sort of the icon of the White House in a way they
🔗 didn't see the president.
🔗 And which is the would you say we were to the most real political power.
🔗 I would imagine
🔗 that most historians would say Eleanor Roosevelt she really marked a turning point
🔗 in our history of the first lady's.
🔗 She she was the first to really take on a large suite of political causes
🔗 social causes
🔗 that she defined as you know being part of her responsibility as first lady
🔗 up until that point we hadn't seen as many presidents giving
🔗 that kind of equal weight and respect to to their wives political opinions
🔗 but she also was the first first lady. We had who held her own press conferences.
🔗 She had her own radio show.
🔗 So she really brought a political dimension to the role.
🔗 Nancy Reagan famously Because involved in astrology.
🔗 How does the interests of the first lady define perceptions of the quality of
🔗 the president because I think with this President Reagan.
🔗 That was the difficulty that his wife was involved in.
🔗 They are figures who do you help shape the image.
🔗 That the public has of the administration and interesting Lee enough.
🔗 Nancy Reagan is not the only first lady who's had a strong interest in astrology
🔗 and a number of our first ladies have actually had some slightly interesting sort
🔗 of religious tendencies.
🔗 You know Mary Todd Lincoln held seances in the White House
🔗 and there's no way around the fact that.
🔗 That does shape our understanding of our presidency
🔗 but you know the flip side is
🔗 that they can make up for some failings of a president as well.
🔗 So sometimes the first lady is the one who can do a much more effective job of
🔗 building goodwill
🔗 or sort of rehabilitating the image of a president to maybe his policy initiatives
🔗 are falling flat and not resonating with the public.
🔗 How have the first ladies who've been roof over who've really
🔗 concern themselves with redecorating the White House probably I mean the most
🔗 famous for us would be Jacqueline Kennedy. To as John F. Kennedy's wife.
🔗 Together they were the sort of first American couple
🔗 and they both were style icons in their own right
🔗 and Jacqueline Kennedy in addition to being fashionable.
🔗 She did also lead one of the biggest renovations of the White House itself
🔗 and so she redefined.
🔗 Even you know the White House style
🔗 and the presentation of our presidential rooms and china patterns.
🔗 I mean if you look at the United States Constitution.
🔗 First ladies aren't mentioned they hold no official role.
🔗 So it really has been left to each woman herself to define what that means
🔗 and so someone like Jacqueline Kennedy a lot of the.
🔗 Programs she supported were arts programming because.
🔗 That was that was her own interest.
🔗 Michelle Obama to I mean she's she's been able to juggle having both very strong
🔗 policy agendas in her own right and issues
🔗 that she cares about while also you know appearing in People magazine
🔗 and Vanity Fair for her fashion sense a new political is to say the words the
🔗 This is so really well husbands to be as ambitious as they are which was the first
🔗 ladies who were really not keen on the issues.
🔗 Well the first best example was Jane Peirce so she was the
🔗 wife of one of the earlier presidents we had Franklin Pierce
🔗 and she famously absolutely detested the idea
🔗 that her husband would be president.
🔗 The story actually goes that
🔗 when she found out he was nominated for the presidency she fainted
🔗 and so she not only discouraged him up until he got to the White House
🔗 but also once he was there.
🔗 She did nothing active as first lady didn't serve in any sort of advisory capacity
🔗 and also didn't even do what was typical of first ladies at the time which was to
🔗 host the dinner parties and welcome foreign guests
🔗 and she really just took herself out of the entire administration.
🔗 What was Hillary Clinton and as a full the first lady.
🔗 That will be of use to her. Should she become president.
🔗 There's probably no closer front row seat to what it means
🔗 to be president than to be first lady a lot of historians
🔗 and biographers even will talk about how important this idea of pillow talk is you
🔗 know at the end of the day the president turns to his spouse
🔗 or you know perhaps in the future.
🔗 Or her spouse
🔗 and talks through the type of decisions he was forced to me the challenges he
🔗 had working with.
🔗 You know different stakeholders or advisers and so I think
🔗 that her experience as first lady gave her a very intimate sense
🔗 and probably pretty realistic sense of the type of challenges
🔗 that could be ahead for her she's president herself.
🔗 And if you do this president himself
🔗 and there will not be a first the what will bill be cooled
🔗 and what do you what can he would do so that's the big interesting question
🔗 that the favored phrase seems to be
🔗 that he would be called first gentleman though again I mean there's no sort of
🔗 official protocol for this. So we'll see.
🔗 But the question of what sort of role he'll have is also a really interesting one
🔗 because in some ways because he served as president himself.
🔗 You could imagine that he would redefine the this sort of support role as one
🔗 that plays a much stronger hand and advising on policy
🔗 or taking up really pivotal core issues themselves at the same time you
🔗 could imagine a scenario where it would potentially be very important for Hillary
🔗 Clinton to establish that she is actually the leader in the White House
🔗 and she has her own administration and so with
🔗 that in mind they may go a different route
🔗 that shouldn't leave any doubts as to who's in charge now.
🔗 And you always ask What would a President be like on the blind date.
🔗 What would you expect from a very
🔗 when we think about going on a blind date with someone obviously it would be very
🔗 different than the sort of persona that they present
🔗 when they're up on stage giving a campaign address
🔗 and a lot of reports about Hillary Clinton. And talk about how.
🔗 One on One.
🔗 She asks a lot of questions
🔗 and doesn't do a whole lot of talking herself
🔗 that she's someone who's very interested in soliciting opinions so
🔗 that gives me the impression
🔗 that on a blind date you would probably be the one to do a lot of the talking
🔗 and you would find what seemed like a pretty interesting interested listener
🔗 and Donald Trump.
🔗 Well I mean I suppose
🔗 that he would probably on a blind date take you to one of his restaurants in one of
🔗 his hotels or one of his golf courses.
🔗 So I suppose there would be probably some fanfare to the date itself.
🔗 I was talking to The Washington Post journalist million coming
🔗 and still to come in today's program the fourth in those who is known knife crime
🔗 what can the police do
🔗 and Charlotte Bray whose composition falling in the fire will have its premiere at
🔗 the promos on Sunday. But the Snellen is a series from the B.B.C.
🔗 World Service with the intention of having a conversation with a woman in different
🔗 parts of the world where she's having her head down.
🔗 So it perturbed didn't have to go far to get to men just to meet Danielle.
🔗 She's the owner together with her husband Graham
🔗 and he had their team of head dresses.
🔗 Really misfits. I like it when you.
🔗 Said some proper same script it was for a home or come to trust Russia.
🔗 Has always been important to me because I've got red hair so I was always called
🔗 which indicated or no. With the first thing about hair and my hope
🔗 and I had rather say whenever we saw anybody whether it's my friends with authentic
🔗 client than I am the straight
🔗 or whatever people would always make a comment on my hair
🔗 and it became a massive part of my identity.
🔗 A year ago. Danielle finished her last chemotherapy treatment for breast cancer.
🔗 So this is the first time that I've been in the her.
🔗 So I want to have my hair caught up in the week before psych chemotherapy in
🔗 September two thousand and forty but the second
🔗 that the word count those brought into the conversation.
🔗 I know it sounds really silly
🔗 but one of the first things I thought about them with oh my God I believe her.
🔗 It feels strange.
🔗 The last time I came here without my hair cut off.
🔗 I wore it short like that for quite a while
🔗 and it was about another five six weeks till it started Presley falling out often
🔗 and I think the fun but even though I've been hoovering no small amounts of hair
🔗 and picking out plugs around in the shower the try to keep secret from Danielle was
🔗 never masses of of her I guess
🔗 when it is the sure you just don't see the hair fall into the ground
🔗 and I thought was going to how wonderful you are going to say actually how full of
🔗 hair I was thinking people do MY was much more gradual.
🔗 You don't think about all the different.
🔗 Losing eyebrows I hadn't occurred to me losing my eyelashes
🔗 and losing in those hair which you didn't realize was even important Also you've
🔗 lost it and then you realise just how much you have no hair is.
🔗 By those with the right yeah. It has really. Made me feel less feminine.
🔗 I think Danielle's hair loss in terms of her personality and her identity.
🔗 She's just changed completely.
🔗 It's like she just looks browbeaten
🔗 and just so sad all the time you were saying
🔗 that you think it made me lose my confidence so I did in places first it was
🔗 surreal or something. I mean first
🔗 and foremost I actually saw done I was going to die.
🔗 So from my point of view it was just horrible double edged sword
🔗 that you know if she did and if she worsened in terms of physical condition.
🔗 So seeing the doc our apartment she was just so sob
🔗 and just not our self at all was horrible.
🔗 I was ill and going through treatment.
🔗 I didn't enjoy coming into solemn at all
🔗 and probably an occasion handful of times because I didn't way to like watching
🔗 other people have a head on it felt really unfair that I have hair
🔗 and I didn't buy it really out.
🔗 It just feels very trivial and on the to base quite a lot of the time
🔗 but it really trivialize what I did for a living.
🔗 How could I pass the cops on her
🔗 when my life at home with no i was a little bit find it difficult to people in my
🔗 own French or YEAH I'M FROM thing previously
🔗 when you left I look a bit long last time is it other that's buried at once I
🔗 when I was at home with no hair a tall you know about
🔗 and out expect it to be more sympathetic
🔗 but made
🔗 me a lot more laid back.
🔗 I can enjoy things that I didn't exist before so I love being outside
🔗 and being in nature and that love feeling.
🔗 And I think she didn't appreciate me got in life on to me professionally they are
🔗 you doing that and I spent a lot of time and still day with him
🔗 and you say hey people here but no i haven't they haven't done anything with it.
🔗 So I maybe felt more stale
🔗 or you know I think we just do something to say we can believe how lucky you are.
🔗 Danielle and Graeme were talking to show that perturbs
🔗 and you can see films from the series by going to the woman's a website
🔗 and following the link. If you were listening earlier in the week.
🔗 You know we've been discussing knife crime which is according to the most recent
🔗 statistics on the rise again. Last year.
🔗 Police forces reported twenty eight thousand six hundred offenses involving a knife
🔗 or a sharp instrument.
🔗 They were given a snow statistic says the rise could be attributed to the better
🔗 recording of crimes or to the decreased use of stop and search the. Lisa.
🔗 There's a growing number of youngsters carrying knives.
🔗 Or the Trident gang crime command was launched by the Metropolitan Police in London
🔗 in twenty twelve. So how is the unit set up to deal with gun crime.
🔗 Now dealing with knives.
🔗 I should book talk to Detective Chief Inspector Hayley guest.
🔗 We have seen an increase in knife crime
🔗 and this time last year we were showing a twenty percent increase for young people
🔗 who are actually injured with knives.
🔗 We have had co-ordinated activity and we finish reduces to.
🔗 Minus one point five percent
🔗 but we've still got a lot to do we are focused on knife crime and reducing
🔗 or violent crime in general. What people increase down to.
🔗 We've noticed that there's a perception of normality around carrying a knife
🔗 and we think so.
🔗 This is fueled by a perception that some young people have
🔗 that because everybody else carrying a knife they might need to carry a knife to
🔗 protect themselves and also we think that music videos and some of
🔗 that culture has influence children especially some of the more violent gang music
🔗 videos where there's of bunching knives and weapons
🔗 that even all the young people who are carrying knives ultimately get involved in
🔗 criminal activity. No that's not what we found.
🔗 Although the majority of instances where young persons actually injured with a
🔗 knife does tend to be linked to criminality
🔗 and gang a lot of young people are carrying knives
🔗 and they're not actually engaging in community as such but the very fact
🔗 that they're carrying the knife actually increases the risk of harm to them whether
🔗 they're actually directly involved in the gangs or associates
🔗 or friends with other people in the gangs
🔗 and of course there are occasions where people are totally unconnected
🔗 and it's a sacred identity or they're just in the wrong place.
🔗 The wrong time other more gangs now in London more you know.
🔗 I think the gang picture is an interesting one because quite often the young.
🔗 People won't actually consider themselves to be in a gang necessarily
🔗 and they may just feel that they're with a group of friends.
🔗 So what we made a gang because it's useful to have a definition of a group of
🔗 people that are made up feel
🔗 that they're actually in a gang in terms of the number of gangs it's really hard to
🔗 say because. The picture changes quite frequently
🔗 and there are new gangs emerging but also allegiances and some gangs joining up.
🔗 How is the Met tackling knife crime.
🔗 The Mets response to knife crime has been twofold really last June in response to
🔗 the increase in knife crime we launched Operation teal which airs focusing on gun
🔗 and knife crime in gang Barris and it's about utilizing all of our assets
🔗 and working together
🔗 and that's had a real impact on those Barrus the second operation we started was in
🔗 July and that was called Operation scepter which took into account
🔗 that actually not all of the knife crime happens on gun barrels
🔗 or in gang areas we have seen small rises in some sort out about as
🔗 that wouldn't have necessarily been associated with knife crime
🔗 and again we're putting that down to the normality of knife carriage
🔗 and also the influence of youth culture
🔗 and in particular some of the game music videos. Operation Sept.
🔗 Focuses on everything from sort of importation
🔗 and supply in where the knives are being purchased
🔗 and coming from all the way through to what happens in court
🔗 and sentencing guidelines and those sort of thing.
🔗 Let's talk about the female experience.
🔗 Are you finding young women are also told in knife crime
🔗 and if so how is it different to the the way that young men are.
🔗 What we find with young women is
🔗 that we don't have a huge amount of evidence to show
🔗 that women are actually going out and using knives injure people.
🔗 That's not Porter in any of the evidence of crime reporting. But we do.
🔗 See that women are sometimes used
🔗 or choose to carry weapons on behalf of a group or a gang
🔗 or on behalf of their boyfriend because they're less likely to be stopped
🔗 and they're less likely to run suspicion.
🔗 Now some of them may consider that they're making a free choice
🔗 but often there's a an exploitation angle to why the girl is doing that.
🔗 So how would you characterize the role of a girl within a gang.
🔗 I don't think there's a simple answer to
🔗 that because in gangs Actually it's the women will play more of a role than you
🔗 might consider and they're not a victim and they're not being exploited
🔗 and they are a member of the gang but in other gangs it is more
🔗 that they're being used to to carry knives and weapons so
🔗 that they don't basically get the boys into trouble.
🔗 How worried are you that the summer holidays may see a spike in incident
🔗 and we do see seasonal spikes often around after him
🔗 and sometimes during the summer months
🔗 and that's obviously because there are a lot more young people around
🔗 and not all of them are involved in activities or clubs
🔗 and so there is an increased risk of general sort violence happening.
🔗 So we have plans in place for that in general do you step up patrols
🔗 or searches weapons sweeps.
🔗 We're talking specifically around knife crime then we produce data which shows
🔗 where there's been so for instances of knife crime
🔗 that officers can go in target a particular time at this time of year parks
🔗 and open spaces the patrols would be stepped up with weapons sweeps again it's
🔗 intelligence led so we would target those around places where there's been so
🔗 increased tension or some instances
🔗 that happened recently on those weapons sweeps what type of weapons are you finding.
🔗 We find it will make we find a lot kitchen knives.
🔗 We find some hunting
🔗 or status combat knives sots But on the whole they tend to be kitchen knives
🔗 and access to knives is one part of our plan and.
🔗 That starts at home with what access children of got to the kitchen
🔗 and where the parents know where the knives are
🔗 but it also extends into how easy is it to buy a knife
🔗 and have cheap they can be so we work with retailers around
🔗 that we do regular test purchase operations using our cadets to see if we can
🔗 purchase knives you say that parents might not know where the knives are
🔗 or where their kids are how important is the role of parents in tackling this issue.
🔗 It's absolutely essential.
🔗 And what we quite often find in what is quite sad is that
🔗 when we go visit have a child.
🔗 The parents quite often don't actually know what the child's been involved in don't
🔗 know whether been hanging around what they've been doing and often
🔗 that knock on the door by the police officer is the first thing
🔗 that they've heard about it
🔗 and what I would say for parents is it's really important to have those
🔗 conversations with your children around knives in how dangerous it is
🔗 and make sure that you know where your knives are where your child is
🔗 and look out for anything
🔗 that might give an indicator of being involved in a gang such as coming home with
🔗 brand new trainers that you don't know where they've got them from
🔗 or having more money than you've given them
🔗 or changing behavior in terms of them been more withdrawn
🔗 or actually the opposite or going missing
🔗 or anything that's sort of out of the usual could be a signal
🔗 that they may be becoming involved in something that you don't want to be.
🔗 Might be difficult for some parents so to always keep tabs on their children.
🔗 I think it's really difficult and some of the other work
🔗 that we do is through schools workshops
🔗 and also to parents as well to help them understand some of these signals
🔗 and what I'd say to the parents is
🔗 that there is a lot of help with dealing with some of the issues they might come
🔗 across and locally there will be sort of diversion schemes that they can try
🔗 and get their children interested in stop and that is very controversial
🔗 but how important is it for you as a force to be able to use it.
🔗 Stop and search is really important
🔗 when it comes down to stopping people carrying knives from two thousand
🔗 and twelve the amount of stop and search
🔗 that we've conducting is reduced hugely we've seen a very slow increase in the last
🔗 twelve months and that's because we're such more people for knives
🔗 and just to give it some context we rest about three thousand people a year from
🔗 stop the search to the impression of an eye for an offensive weapon
🔗 and those are three thousand people that we would not stop
🔗 and who knows what they might go on to do with those weapons.
🔗 What we make sure that they stop and search are targeted in the right place
🔗 and on the people that we suspect to carry knives.
🔗 Is it difficult all to use though in terms of community relations sometimes.
🔗 Yes I think it is and I think
🔗 that the officers we need to make sure they're explaining what they're doing
🔗 and why. And since the opposite.
🔗 She's just said was the level of complaints say is having an effect the fact
🔗 that we're a more targeted intelligence with our use in this to. The C.I.
🔗 Halley guests was talking to i Books
🔗 and tomorrow we'll look further at the use of stop and search across the country
🔗 and how other cities are tackling not crime.
🔗 Shall not break began her musical career as a cellist
🔗 but began to compose in her early twenty's on Sunday the problems in Newark falling
🔗 in the fire will have its world premiere. It was commissioned by the B.B.C.
🔗 and It was inspired by the destruction of the ancient city of Pomona in Syria last
🔗 summer that we can play and extract from
🔗 that piece because even Charlotte hasn't yet heard it performed by an orchestra.
🔗 Instead this is an earlier work played the drums in twenty twelve at the speed of
🔗 Surely it's unusual.
🔗 I think for someone to study cello for their degree
🔗 and then decide on composition how did it happen. Yes indeed it is quite unusual.
🔗 I am I.
🔗 For some of the musicianship homework we had today as a to tell us we had to
🔗 compose and for that I was making composition in the start of bartók
🔗 and I enjoyed it so much
🔗 and then I I had some encouragement from a composer friend of mine at the time
🔗 and realize how much I did I had really loved composing so I made quite a swift
🔗 late to change course and study composition. So how do you deal with a commission.
🔗 You know somebody says what with commissioning you to write a piece for the rooms
🔗 when when you're then starting to work on something like this be the stillness.
🔗 What inspires it and and you just have to sit there and do it.
🔗 I'm usually I have ideas coming for pieces in quite far in advance of
🔗 when I'm actually going to sit down and write the night.
🔗 But then as with falling in the far actually sometimes
🔗 when you do sit down to write the night something totally different comes up in the
🔗 case of the teleconverter I HIGHLY had totally different ideas as I. Said.
🔗 But on the morning on the morning that I sat down to compose I read the news first.
🔗 And it was confirmed that this ancient city in Syria Palmeiro had been destroyed
🔗 and I felt very emotional
🔗 and strongly compelled to think about that and composed something
🔗 and ideas just started coming to my mind.
🔗 And so from there I started researching into Syria into the conflicts
🔗 and it became clear that it would be a peace that's more broadly about conflict
🔗 and power and territory and less about something specific to the Panamera.
🔗 Now why falling in the fire
🔗 and that's a quote actually from from a photographer who.
🔗 Had taken a picture of one of his photo journalist colleagues in Libya
🔗 and by the time they tried to get out of this building it been set on fire
🔗 and the journalists had to jump through the fire
🔗 and one of them took a photo of the other journalists as he called it falling in
🔗 the fire. So I found that a very powerful image and
🔗 that directly linked to the research
🔗 and the motivation I found in the piece from Tim Hetherington who was a
🔗 photojournalist who was sadly killed in Libya in two thousand and eleven.
🔗 I know you're planning a conversation with one of to militant
🔗 and colleagues thievin for a B.B.C. Programs extra program.
🔗 Why you came to involve him in this whole work.
🔗 Well the influence from Tim Hetherington was really a very strong motivation behind
🔗 the piece and we. I contacted the Tim Hetherington foundation.
🔗 He was set up to help train journalists and explore the role
🔗 that they can play in helping. All the young investigative journalists.
🔗 Pursue their careers.
🔗 And I found it very interesting to explore the link between news and politics
🔗 and art and music. And really explore that relationship.
🔗 So it's very fascinating to talk more with someone like Stephen maser another
🔗 journalist and explore the links
🔗 that we have in the motivation we find through different art to music I know
🔗 that I mentioned
🔗 that we couldn't play an extract from for you with her because you would even hurt
🔗 yourself sleep at all costs or how come you know you're right to be starters
🔗 and the first time we're here is yours to worry morning tourist and then yes.
🔗 Yeah that's the way it works with orchestras just a couple of days before you sit
🔗 down with them
🔗 and rehearse the work for the first time I guess you become used to
🔗 that within your career as a composer.
🔗 But I have been working with the cellist guy Johnston in a very collaborative way.
🔗 So we actually had a resident say over music in December last year where we were
🔗 through the ideas for the concerto
🔗 and really began our collaboration in a in a really great and strong way so
🔗 that I mean the music is all in your head you know you can imagine how it's going
🔗 to sound what you don't like the way they play you.
🔗 Yeah you're allowed to say no no do it differently. Yeah absolutely.
🔗 You try I mean you try to put as much detail into the school into the notes
🔗 that they're reading as you can say
🔗 that there are as few changes as need Baber if there are things out of place
🔗 or sometimes typos or you have the rehearsal time to sort that out
🔗 and then to find China
🔗 and also to allow the performance to have their interpretation of your music which
🔗 is a very important line between the performers and the composer.
🔗 Now a lot of people find new music difficult
🔗 and they're looking for a melody you know something
🔗 that I could latch on to who should we listen to music.
🔗 And for composers it's always quite a shock to realize
🔗 that other people don't find their music accessible because in our minds it's very
🔗 accessible and it makes a lot of sense and
🔗 but I would say for people to really lose lose that our own minds
🔗 and follow their imagination and listen to the sounds
🔗 that are presented to them rather than trying to intellectualize music in any way
🔗 rather than trying to think what is this a bow. Just to let the music.
🔗 Lead them in somewhere. Amazing. Hopefully somewhere different for them.
🔗 Sure that I'm going to be there on Sunday.
🔗 So I should be led into something amazing. I'm sure I hope so.
🔗 Thank you very much very much for being with us. And now the serial grand.